I thought it was just me, but apparently, it’s not.
We’ve gone through three HP inkjet all-in-one printers in the past four years. One, the Officejet 7410, refused to connect to a wireless network, so that was returned and replaced with a Photosmart C7180. The Photosmart 7180 eventually died with a paper jam that could only be cleared by removing the *ahem* non-removable paper tray. (Why, exactly, is the paper tray non-removable?)
So we recently acquired an HP Photosmart Premium Fax All-in-One aka the C309a. As a printer, it works fine — even double-sided printing works as advertised. However, the printer will occasionally fire up for no good reason. The print heads will move, the printer shakes and makes a tremendous racket, then the printer will quiet down again. I suppose it’s priming the inkjet heads, but it’s way too noisy and distracting when it does this.
On top of that, the HP-supplied scanning software is simply horrendous. It’s buggy, for one thing. Whenever I scan an image, the next scan reports that the printer is offline, when it’s not. (The printer itself is connected over a wired network.) There appears to be no native 64-bit support, either. Plus, it’s incredibly, painfully slow. The actual act of scanning is fast enough. However, any time you need to navigate from one screen to the next (say, to bring up the scan settings), it takes a full 4-8 seconds to bring up a new window. This is on a Core 2 Duo 2.26GHz laptop running Windows Vista Home Premium x64 (with 4GB of RAM.)
When the scan is finished, saving the file takes almost a minute (!).
HP’s Windows 7 support isn’t available yet, though Windows 7 has a built-in printer drivers for the C309a, but no way to connect to the scanner over a network. HP’s printer software won’t even install under Windows 7. The trick of unpacking the driver and manually installing it by setting compatibility mode (which worked with the C7180 drivers), doesn’t work with the c309a drivers. That’s why I’m using the scanning software on a laptop, instead of my much faster desktop PC.
Recently, I had the opportunity to use a Canon printer. The software was slick and responsive, and the printer output quite good. I haven’t checked out Canon’s scanning software, so can’t comment on that yet. But the printer software was easier to use and set up than HP printers, and doesn’t clutter up the desktop or tray with lots of crapware.
I’m not the only one having issues. I’ve talked to a number of users who are having similar issues with HP printers. Support has been lacking, and any issues seem to be met with a “buy a new printer” mantra from HP’s support help line.
Recently, HP announced a corporate reorganization, in which the printer group is being merged with the PC division. This can only be a good thing. HP’s PC group has been kicking serious ass lately, developing innovative laptops and building interesting technology into desktop PCs (like the TouchSmart systems.)
We can hope that some of this attitude rubs off on the printer group. HP’s printer divisions seem to be coasting along, resting on past glories. It needs to do some serious navel gazing and start designing products that work well with software that’s actually useful and not painfully slow.
Hmmm, I might have to adjust my bad attitude with Canon printers.
I received two free $100 printers with two Mac purchases this year and last year. The Canon MP480 has worked flawlessly and brilliantly. The HP Photosmart C4280 was horrible by comparison, especially on the software side. I had to update the Canon drivers manually for Snow Leopard, but otherwise, it’s a night vs. day improvement.
Loyd’s experience reflects my own.
My ardor for HP printers has cooled dramatically in the last eight or nine years. It started with HP’s all-in-one OfficeJet products. I had an OfficeJet G85 at work. The drivers were atrocious. Something minor broke, and rather than fix it, HP sent me a refurbished one as a replacement. That one eventually broke, too. The unit was maybe four years old when that happened.
I quickly learned that pretty much all of the OfficeJets were just as bad. I even made the mistake of buying an inexpensive OfficeJet for use at home. My previously untroublesome XP system immediately began giving me trouble. Suddenly, my Linksys 802.11G adapter drivers started throwing invalid page fault errors if I logged in too quickly after the system booted, and I had many other forms of grief.
I mistakenly decided that the problem was caused by one bad product segment (OfficeJets) in an otherwise fine product lineup.
I kept this mistaken belief until the LaserJets started falling apart. Even inexpensive LaserJets used to last 7 or 8 years with almost no maintenance. But these days, even mid-range LaserJets ($1300+) barely last four years before they fall apart. And sub-$1000 printers last maybe two to three years. And HP’s support has been abysmal.
I’m a long-time Dell customer, and during a recent large server purchase, they threw in a few color workgroup laser printers. Those printers have been outstanding–easy to use, inexpensive to operate, decent drivers, etc. I think we’re going to ditch HP and switch to Dell printers. and I never expected to say that.
I have a Epson Printer and Love it!
Ditto on the bad experiences lately with HP’s printers, especially their all-in-one offerings. I bought two of them in a row for my mother and had both fail within a year. After the second one bit the dust I decided to give Canon a shot and picked up their PIXMA MP610 after hearing some good things about it and it’s been doing just fine for almost a year and a half of heavy use. The calls about printer problems have stopped and now thing only thing I hear about it is how much she likes this feature or that option and how well it’s been working.
I really do hope HP can get turn their printer lines back around. We’ve got 5 B&W HP Laserjets going in my office, including a 4L and a 4000 series that are both over 10 years old and other than one bad ethernet card and a few rubber rollers needing replaced they’ve been great. HP has a great reputation because of those lines of printers but they’re going to start losing that reputation very quickly if something isn’t done. Heck, go read some of the rants on Newegg about the problems with the P3005dn. I was going to recommend it to a friend who was recently looking for a decent b&w laserjet but after browsing over a few of those I thought better of it.
I have had nothing but trouble with HP’s home and home office products and software. The 7410 is fine when it works, but there’s no reason it should take 45 minutes to install the software (at the time it was new). I remember installing this software on 3 machines, only to fumble one of the last dialog boxes and cancel/rollback the entire install. I watched in frustration as 30 minutes of rollback happened… then I had to start all over. A few months later, it needed to be replaced, but the replacement works… slowly.
My wife’s OfficeJet (forget the model) stopped accepting print cartridges. I called tech support and they gave me an address, told me to take the printer there so it could be shipped off for repair. They didn’t give me an option to ship it myself. I could not find the address they gave me. It turns out, it used to be a Radio Shack that had closed, but they didn’t even tell me I was looking for a Radio Shack, so I had no idea what I was looking for. When I called back, they said my printer was now out of warranty (by a week), but they offered to replace it for $10 less than the price we paid for it. When I insisted that I had called about this printer already and it should be still covered under warranty, they said they showed no records of my previous call.
My wife really liked this printer, so after fuming over it for a few months, I relented and bought her the same model as a replacement. Every time she goes to use it, it’s magically out of ink.
I share your experience with the printer all of a sudden waking up and running the heads back and forth noisily. Our OfficeJet d145 does that several times a day/night. I’ve taken to turning it off at night. Another problem is that there are no complete drivers for Vista 64. I’ve ended up using another HP driver to get it to print without spitting out extra blank pages.
When we purchase the replacement, it will not be HP. Which is a shame as I’ve always liked their laserjet products.
Me pedant, but 2nd last ‘para’ needs a minor edit.
“HP’s printer group has been kicking serious ass lately”
should I think be
“HP’s PC group/division has been kicking serious ass lately”
I can’t comment on recent HP Printers….my 14 year-old LaserJet 4L is still chugging along as my main (B&W) printer. But my 4 (?) year old Cannon MP Pixma is still going strong, through 2 computer and operating system upgrades….and I give it a constant workout as a scanner and photo printer.
Fixed, thanks!
Neither my good old pre-Fiorina LaserJet 4 nor the newer LaserJet 1210 have given me any trouble. I do hear terrible things about HP’s cheaper and all-in-one devices, though.
I find that the hardware is lower quality than in the past. I have had lots of clients with HP printers that fail within a year of two of low volume use.
HP’s printer software is even worse. I blogged about my frustration with it at http://rhftech.com/blog/2009/05/why-is-hewlett-packard-installation-software-so-awful/
Used to love HP printers, despise them now. HP as a company are the kings of crapware and one-year lasting printers in not acceptable. I have replaced the HP printers in my office with Brother’s and have enjoyed the reduction in stress which was achieved.
I agree with Derek. My Pixma MP760 has been going strong for years. I made the switch from HP to Canon years ago.
My Canon LBP-430 from 1993 is still going strong. I expanded the memory on it a few years ago and had to buy a new cable since my new motherboard didn’t have an LPT port. I don’t print every day. My HP all-in-one printer is only a few years old and it is a crapshoot every time I try to print out something in color. The scanner works well, though.
Anyone that has replaced an HP Laserjet 4100 with a 4250 will attest to this same issue, I believe.
The 4100s were built like tanks. It’s a cube, and it prints. For ever, and ever, and ever. The 4250s on the other hand are a mixed bag. They vibrate and sound like a mack truck when they fire up to print, and every one I’ve had has eventually developed problems. I have three 4100s at work that are still going strong after 10 years (with minimal fuser replacements, rollers, etc) and so far 2 4250s have died of gear wear between the fuser and the printer. From the sound when it prints, it’s obvious it isn’t built to the same standards as the old printers. I mean OBVIOUS.
And don’t get me started on HP drivers these days. I mean, do we really need to install all of the extra processes to print to a network printer????
The 4100s even SOUND cleaner. Not a lot of noise, they just…work. I’m honestly nonplussed by the current crop of HP laser printers. Why can’t they just work off the old 4100 design and create solid printers that last?
Give me back my solid cube that just prints.
Gah. If I could still buy new 4100s, I’d do it in a heartbeat. For now, I’m forced to look elsewhere. Perhaps Canon is an alternative. I just want a solidly built workgroup laser printer that doesn’t sound like it’s tearing itself apart every time it prints. Is that too much to ask?
Actually there is a cliff between the 4100 and the 4250…
However, FWIW, I have a 1320 at home that has been going strong for 3 years (light use, though).
And it looks and sounds pretty solid.
It appears as if HP is capable of programming immaculate code in all consumer products save for their desktop printer line. It’s downright embarrassing. I don’t know that the reasoning is behind all the poor implementation of drivers/code – but this seems to be the only area in which I have ever had any trouble with HP software. Even their scanner software wasn’t this bad. HP’s thin client support software is amazing – when it comes to something that was once a hallmark of their core business – inkjet printers – they’ve done a piss-poor job of even attempting to maintain the status quo in this regard. The slow backslide into oblivion has seen their own rapid supersession by Canon, Epson, Lexmark, even Brother (!). I’ve since migrated to laser, but to anyone who asks my opinion on an inkjet? I point them to Canon.
I had a Canon, but it died after 4 or 5 years.
I ended up getting an HP because of a good deal.
And my HP C6380 AIO prints decent enough so far. No complaints there.
But yes the HP software sucks and yes the printer sounds like a 15 yr old washing machine in the middle of a fast spin cycle when it feels the need to clean or adjust the printheads before or after printing.
HP printer software reminds me of Creative’s Soundblaster software. And that ain’t a good thing.
The bigger Question is what happened to HP? I purchased a high end $2K HP LP2480zx directly from HP earlier this year. I went through five of them and each had either excessive dead/stuck pixels or drastic irregular color casts/irregular backlighting.
Their customer service was abominable – the worst I’ve ever experienced from any company. Countless hours on the phone and never with the same person twice. Finally gave up and returned it. HP is not what it used to be in any facet of its product lineup. I’ll never purchase anything from HP ever again.
The last HP printer I had failed at 13 months. HP software with one friend could never get their all in-one-fax-machine work as intended. Their ink is way over priced (Lexmark is the worst for ink prices). I went to a Canon after and am very happy with it. I have often wondered why HP warranties only lasted 12 months. It seems that their products may only last 13 months.
I had a similar frustration with HP up until a year ago when I switched to a Kodak multi-function, a 5300. I’m on my second one now, an ESP-7, and their software is also clunky and can’t remember things like where to put the scanned image on disk from one session to the next, etc. Even tho Kodak’s Ink is inexpensive, I’m about to have to order my third print head from Kodak tech support as my current replacement has now stopped working. They separate the ink from the heads.
I’ve never owned a Canon printer but I’m going to take a look now. Thanks Loyd and all.
Loyd,
Glad I found you again. Louderback was (is) an idiot to have let you leave, and now he gets to pay for his foolishness. I used to spend hours on Extremetech, and I have not gone back – not once – since you left. I am quite sure I am not the only one. There is just nothing intelligent to read there anymore.
About HP printers: I was a long time Epson fan until a couple of years ago when the incessant head clogging, particularly with little-used printers, drove me to HP. Yes, a 298MB download for what is basically a printer driver is absurd – my Linux install is not much larger than that! The HP software is slow, bloated, hard to install, harder to uninstall, and incompatible with almost everyting including itself. With four printers on my network I actually had to build a script to kill all of the dead processes HP leaves around and reboot the print spooler from time to time because the Laserjet driver locks up the spooler if it runs while a photosmart job is printing.
On the other hand, my hardware experience has been terrific. I believe the Photosmart Vivera inks to be superior to Epson’s (pigmented or dye) in terms of color renditon, particularly on art (uncoated) paper. My cheap Laserjet is blindingly fast considering its cost and compared to any Inkjet.
I have four printers ethernet connected on a “home” network – three Photosmarts (B9180 13″ and two multifunctions) and a P1505n Laserjet. I can leave the B9180 sitting for weeks and when I want to make a large print, it’s right there – no clogs, jams, whatever. It just sits there an maintains itself with no help from me; it even auto corrects the (hardware) color balance using an admittedly basic built in colorimeter. The other Photosmart printers also do not clog – ever. And what can you say about a $172 laser printer that is good for almost 40 pages per minute printing pdfs?
So maybe what they really need to do is just stop offshoring the software development, since that move seems to have coincided with the drastic reduction in software quality (that should get the flames roaring, eh?).
Again, I’m glad to have found your blog.
Mark
Neil,
One word: “Offshore”.
The “Offshore Boom” started in the late 90′s, due in large part to the shortage of software engineers in the US brought on by the massive Y2K work that was going on at the time. Once once the suits figured out they could get a SW engineer for $20K instead of $100K, and since most every suit thinks that any sofware engineer is as good as any other software engineer, the flood gates opened and the US jobs evaporated.
It’s not that offshore engineers are any less smart or able than their American counterparts,. Its just that it took us 40 years to figure out the processes required to mangage software development in a way that does not result in crap. It is not unreasonable to expect that it will take them just as long. What’s worse is that the American management Is more clueless about SW development the further away it is, so the goals/schedules/budgets are pretty much what one would expect from Dogbert. The result is that much of what is produced offshore is crap.
I never worked for HP but I have been in Tech for 25 years, and I have managed teams of hundreds both in the US and in India & China (so I guess I am more of the problem than the solution
. I would bet a month’s paycheck that the higher margin “business” product lines, like Laserjets, contain software written locally while the “consumer” (i.e. Photosmart) software is all offshored.
As I write this, some VP is getting his or her multi-hundred thousand dollar annual bonus at HP for doing such a good job of “controlling software costs”. Which is great until HP loses their customers. Which is what will happen if they don’t get their act together. Like many other respondents to this post, I will NEVER buy another HP consumer printer. Like a famous character on an even more famous TV show once said, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”.
Hi, Mark:
You can’t blame Louderback on this one; he’d left the company a year before I did. If anything, Jim was highly supportive of ExtremeTech. I think he left because he saw the writing on the wall.
I have an OKI C5650 and couldn’t be happier with it.
Great colour printing 22ppm and it is a networked printer which allows use in my small office.